Welsh fellowship evicted from village hall

A small fellowship which met in a village hall in North Wales claims that it has been pushed out from the premises because of the support that it shows for the Jewish people and the establishment of Israel in the land.

THE last weekend in October saw the final service the Christian congregation 'Fathers House' held at Gwernymynydd Village Centre, North Wales as a consequence of being evicted after 11 years because the management Committee disagreed with their beliefs concerning Israel.

Pastor Mike Fryer and the Fathers House stand firm in their support of Israel and belief that the land of Israel was given to the Jewish people as an everlasting possession in accordance with the Scriptures. The congregation are not willing to compromise in expounding these scriptures and in making their support for the Jewish people and the establishment of Israel in the land.

The management of the village centre had made it very clear in Spring this year that the views expressed in the church website were enough of an issue for them to evict the congregation from the Council-owned centre.
The letter in May stated: "There has also been great concern expressed about the content of your web site, and the very controversial views it contains. "The Village Centre Committee does not wish to be associated with your views."

Pastor Fryer who presents programmes on Revelation TV said:

"We have been there for more than 11 years. We pay more money in than any other group using the hall, and we probably do more for the community than any other group. "We normally meet on a Saturday from 2.30pm until 7pm, but we have said we're happy to meet earlier, and have even cancelled some meetings when necessary. "They wanted us to use the hall on a Sunday, knowing very well that our Sabbath is a Saturday.”

Fathers House is disinclined to rent any other public facility in the County of Flintshire for fear of similar action and have now rented an Industrial Unit in the Deeside Area of North Wales in which to meet temporarily whilst looking for a more permanent home.

On February 5, 2010, then Prime Minister Gordon Brown condemned the record-breaking rise in anti-Semitic incidents that occurred in 2009. He urged Britons to be alert to anti-Jewish hate. He also stated: "Anti-Semitism is one of the most ancient of hatreds – and yet it constantly adapts to modern times requiring ever greater vigilance from all of us who are determined to stand up for tolerance and for the truth."

Christians Together conducted a short telephone interview with Pastor Fryer and it can be heard here.

Comment:
As we evidence within our nation a rising hostility to the Christian message and God's word we are likely to see an increase in incidents like the above. The pressure will come on preachers and churches to water-down the messages that they seek to proclaim in order not to offend.

A fellowship like the above is obviously vulnerable when renting premises. However churches which depend on retaining charitable status and the corresponding tax reimburshments to fund expensive church building programmes will be equally vulnerable if their message 'offends'.

Christians Together, 19/11/2010

Feedback:

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	Martin Lisemore	25/11/2010 14:03
Editor:The pressure will come on preachers and churches to water-down the messages that they seek to proclaim in order not to offend. This is why the message from Leonard Ravenhill posted on another debate this week is so important. Quote:This generation of preachers is responsible for this generation of sinners. (1965 I think) Not all preachers and ministers are responsible for this, but many are. Their names are known to our Father. My prayers are with Pastor Fryer and his congregation. From their website I can say, why are they not closer to me?
	Peter Carr	29/11/2010 19:38
This must be a concern to church fellowships renting space in schools, halls and centres all over the UK!!
	Editor	29/11/2010 20:44
There are concerns here both for churches who rent premises and - in certain circumstances - churches that have their own premises. In both of these situations the pressure could come on churches to water down the Gospel. Jesus as the one and only way to God cuts right across the pluralist multi-faith message. The situation with regards 'renting' is well-illustrated in the above example. However if a congregation has its own premises but these premises are mortgaged and reliant on tax refunds on members contributions to finance the repayments, then the congregation could come under pressure to soften its message in order to retain charitable status.
	Peter Carr	30/11/2010 10:10
"However if a congregation has its own premises but these premises are mortgaged and reliant on tax refunds on members contributions to finance the repayments, then the congregation could come under pressure to soften its message in order to retain charitable status." Thanks ed, are you aware of current legislation which makes this possible?
	Martin Lisemore	30/11/2010 14:04
To some extent, this exclusion from the main stream is already happening. I get occasional email messages from Christianvoice.org.uk. Last year, after several years banking with the Co-op Bank, an 'ethical' bank, they were given, I think, 28 days to close their account and remove their funds. And that in response to a five minute slot on TV with CV founder Stephen Green. Our little Christian bookshop six miles away saw it's rents triple in one hike last year. The premises are owned by the curry house next door who are not known to be Christians. Some years ago we began moves to open a Christian bookshop in another town about twelve miles away. The premises we had in mind were vacant, and had been for some long time. We were blocked by the strong Masonic lodge in that town, and by the local council who were required to grant change of use planning permission. Of course, they're Masonic too! The entire town is in Masonic thralldom. Peter, there may be legislation in place, Ed is better placed to find out, but Godless pressure groups and societies are achieving much, and that to our shame.
	Editor	30/11/2010 15:19
Regarding the question about church's and charitable status, see (for instance) - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2188369/Religious-groups-could-lose-charitable-status.html There are of course different chartiy rules applying from country to country, but the principles can be applied across the board. In France, Southern Baptists have been classed as a 'sect'. If this is being applied to a recognised group of churches, imagine how easy it would be for an independent evangelical church (in any country) to be thus labelled. If the authorities don't like your message there are umpteen ways in which pressure can be brought to bear. However a public message list is not the best place to discuss the details.
	Rosemary Cameron	30/11/2010 22:53
I do not believe that churches should water down their message. I do however think that we need to be wise, particularly in regards to the use of the internet via websites and emails. A website can easily be accessed by anyone and links to it copied around a large group of people. Ditto emails. It is therefore easy for someone to stir up trouble for a church on the basis of what is contained in its website. If they had to actually attend a service in order to find out what the church believed I doubt they would make the effort. Perhaps the less said on a church website the better?
	Tom Meeks (Guest)	30/11/2010 23:30
A (large) part of the problem here is the fact that many (majority?) of churches are putting their sermons on-line. So the choices are - * take the sermons-off line (or password protect them) * make sure that nothing non-PC is preached during sermons * continue preaching the whole counsel of God and face the music There was one case some time ago of a pastor in Finland (I think) who was arrested for preaching about sexuality from his pulpit (i.e it wasn't posted on the web).
	Peter Carr	01/12/2010 08:12
Maybe the problem lies with the church living too close to the state with charitable status and gift aid. I wonder how the church managed to get by in previous centuries without these?
	Martin Lisemore	01/12/2010 17:15
Churches are too close to the State. No doubt. The Church of England was Established as such by an Act of Parliament, with it's head as the reigning monarch. Bishops and archbishops are nominated by the State, and appointed by the Crown. Both bishops and archbishops have a seat in the House of Lords, though mere vicars are banned from entering the House of Commons as MP's. No much to wrong there! I can't speak for Scotland, but in England, until charitable status was brought in, any church or fellowship, other than the established Church of England, was dependent upon gifts of all kinds from it's disciples. Just like the New Testament model. I know of a Methodist chapel where, two hundred years ago, disciples and the faithful started saving farthings to build premises for themselves. That chapel still stands. It's now a pet crematorium! I know of house churches who have no charitable status, and eschew GiftAid. It seems to me they prosper. One argument I've heard from them is the sacred and profane, clean money and dirty money. Might be something in that. That's bound to be controversial. Tom, there is an issue about how much churches should use the internet to propagate their particular views. Password protecting sermons, or anything else, is only a minor inconvenience. Only if the password key is above fifteen alpha numeric characters is it even remotely secure. An experienced hacker (I'm not that, though I know how it's done) will get through most anything. Nothing non-PC preached? Well, we have that in the main denominations now. Few vicars and ministers seem to put their heads above the pulpit. Recall in recent years, Donald Soper, Billy Graham, George Harris and Durham bishop David Jenkins and many others were usually in the headlines. Now the press all but ignores the churches. We all must accept a very basic fact here. Jesus, the Cross and the Gospel are an offence to the unbeliever. Now they have the weapons to fight, protected behind a wall of legalities and media sympathies. We have Ephesians 6, which tells us to stand, but be well armed with spiritual weapons. If not in this life, then certainly in eternity, we are the victors. It's going to get nasty, and dangerous for us. Tom, you said face the music. I believe it will be a cacophony of lies, deceit and demonic intrusions. Actually, just like the New Testament church had.

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