Debates (Open)

   
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Peter Carr 16/02/2012 19:59
Pawlo,

Is this the same church that you are talking about that Jesus has promised to build, and that the gates of hell will not prevail against? Sure the church and Christians are far from perfect, but let us not forget whose church it really is, and who is at its head!

Problems have arisen, arise and will continue to when we, mere mortals, don't let Jesus reign as is His right in our hearts and our churches. But the good news for us all is that He is in total control, and He won't relinquish power or place to anyone or anything.
GC (Guest) 16/02/2012 21:16
I think the church that Pawlo is talking abut is those who love the Lord and that is not the same thing as the buildings and stuff,
JaT 16/02/2012 22:52
Yes, GC, Jesus' church is the body of believers, not bricks and mortar (Peter's talking about that church too).

“Problems have arisen, arise and will continue to when we, mere mortals, don't let Jesus reign as is His right in our hearts and our churches. But the good news for us all is that He is in total control, and He won't relinquish power or place to anyone or anything.”

Thanks for that, Peter. Always good to have our eye drawn to the Rock on which we stand.

How do these elephants get in? We must be leaving some doors wide open!
Hearing but not doing the word of God (James 1:22-25) could be perceived by some to be a door barely ajar, yet before long a whole herd of hulking grey beasts troop through and start rubbing shoulders with God’s elect.
Hypocrisy, idolatry, sexual immorality, gossip, slander (Rom 1:18-32) and lack of forgiveness (Matt 5:21-24), just to name a few.

It’s enough to make one weep. Close the door on these and the Kundalini wouldn’t get a foothold.

Pawlo (Guest) 16/02/2012 23:27
"But the good news for us all is that He is in total control, and He won't relinquish power or place to anyone or anything."

With that statement you have just cleared yourselves from any personal dealings with these church issues. Don't you see that EVERYONE SAYS THAT!

Westmister issues, people say - God is in control
Sexuality issues, people say - Don't worry, God knows what He's doing.
Those spiritually seduced say - God is in control.

That statement isn't even true anyway because Gods control will ultimately be bad news for many of us! The Jews didn't endure the wilderness for nothing! Look at what is really going on, read the signs!
JaT 16/02/2012 23:40
I suppose that depends on whether you use 'God is in Control' as a cop-out, absolving one from action (which admittedly, some people do) - or as a source of eternal truth and strength, enabling one to stand and fight in the face of the world the flesh and the devil.
Peter Carr 17/02/2012 08:26
Amen JaT
Pawlo (Guest) 17/02/2012 09:51
Sorted then! He'll sort it, we'll just watch and discuss what he's doing.
John Miller 17/02/2012 09:54
In Luke's record of the early Christian church (Acts of the Apostles) Antioch was the first local church of which we have details regarding its establishment. Three things marked the ancient city of Antioch. Firstly it was an important political centre. Roman history suggests that it was the third most important city in the Roman Empire in its heyday after Rome (no.1) and Alexandria (no.2). Secondly it was a very wealthy and impoertant city commercially. Trade between Rome and its eastern colonies flowed continuously through it, bestowing great wealth on its merchants and population generally. Thirdly it was a centre of dreadful immorality and licentiousness. There was a public open space where onlookers used to go and spectate at the sexual excesses and perversions of others. When Rome itself was in decline due in large part to immorality and sexual depravity a Roman Senator proclaimed in the Senate, "The Orontes has flowed into the Tiber!" This was a reference to the rivers upon which Antioch and Rome were respectively situated. How remarkable therefore that this was the first place where we are given details of the planting of a Christian church, the first place where believers were called Christians and the first place where Saul's (soon to become Paul) ministry was foundational in its establishment. It is also instructive to take note of the fact that Barnabas laboured with Saul. Saul was the expositor, Barnabas was the encourager.What a team! The Holy Spirit appears to be teaching us in these events that the church of Jesus Christ can flourish and grow in the blackest of surroundings if Christ Himself is supreme and the teaching of God's word is revered.
Pawlo (Guest) 17/02/2012 10:10
Wasn't it spring time then? Aren't we nearing winter? Even the smallest shoots struggle in such icy conditions.
Peter Carr 17/02/2012 10:26
Pawlo,

The Church is His, He is in absolute control, He has absolute Authority, and if we are not going His way we are going the wrong way. Yes, we must do what we can when we can, but we must also accept our human limitations and accept His absolute pure and perfect power. (Matt 28: 18 - 20)
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