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Charles M (Guest) (20/09/2013 13:55)
''....it is the unbelieving that are the brainwashed''
Don't be daft.
Antibody (Guest) (20/09/2013 14:16)
Whether you like to admit it or not Charles - we are all brainwashed.
We are all have our thought patterns and beliefs fashioned by our inherited traits, our parents, our early education and the experience of our formative years.
None of us choose who we are gong to be, and therefore, none of us can possibly choose who we eventually become.
Charles M (Guest) (20/09/2013 19:53) Antibody -I can understand and to some extent accept the germ of what you are getting at however we ought not to under-estimate insight/ perception and the positive action that is sometimes triggered as a result.Many people have turned around their most appalling situations in life and such situations do not necessarily stem from brainwashing!
Not forgetting of-course that I was responding to the charge that it was only the unbelieving that were brainwashed!
Colin Ford (Guest) (20/09/2013 21:24)
If I may just interject: As an unbeliever, of course you are very correct in what you assert,and I do stand "guilty as charged".
The Scriptures, Bible, God's Abiding Word; whatever you want to call them; admit to an "Absolute Truth"?
The Saviour Himself declared in John 14.6 KJV "I am the way and the truth and the life.." There is "none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved" Acts 4.12 KJV. My views/beliefs by definition ARE extremely narrow! "Narrow is the way..." Matthew 7.14 KJV.
Truth IS singular, error/lies are MANY. Antibody is correct when he says we are (to use my own words) the product of our influences/upbringing? If we are taught to believe something (be it true or false) we will believe it?
Some Scriptures that may be appropriate.
Romans 8.6-8 KJV, 1 Corinthians 20-23 KJV etc.
And as we have been talking about Creation, I am sorry, but I cannot, cannot,cannot accept that "Once upon a time a big explosion happened 1,000,000,000,000,000 years ago (or whenever the latest date 'scientists' decide to put upon it, that something crawled out of the sea, became an ape, then eventually (given enough time!) turned into a human being! This is incredulous to the extreme!!?
No! I believe in the Creator God of the Holy Bible!
Psalm 19.1-3 KJV
Charles M (Guest) (21/09/2013 10:01)
Ah,Colin, but it is not one or the other. That is to say if science has got this one wrong, regarding the beginning of the world, despite using reason and scrutiny by peer group, it does not automatically mean that Christianity is valid! There are scores of good reasons for doubting Christianity but I will not list them here.
I read recently about a particular group of Christians that prevent their children from receiving higher education. How despicable is that? One can only ponder their motives.
Colin Ford (Guest) (21/09/2013 14:43)
What makes the truth of Christianity "valid", is that as a believer I see the Saviour; the blessed Lord Jesus Christ on EVERY page of Holy Writ; Old and New Testaments.
Christian cults and apostate Christianity deny His Deity. Some would have us believe that the Lord Jesus is some "New improved God" who "popped up out of nowhere" some 2000 years ago, abrogating the Law, and other such things! Hebrews 13.8 KJV, Malachi 3.6 KJV; He is the One whom fulfilled the "suffering Servant" prophecies in the Psalms and Old Testament Prophets, He spoke to Moses in the burning bush Exodus 3.4 KJV, He led the Israelites across the Red Sea Exodus 14.29-31 KJV, He is the One Moses spoke of (that would come in human flesh) in Deuteronomy 18.15 KJV. What did the Lord say Himself regards these Scriptures? John 8.58 KJV, Luke 24.44 KJV.
I believe, not because of some "touchy feel good" feeling, or it "feels right", but because I have been "quickened" by God's Holy Spirit Ephesians 2.1-3 KJV, I was "dead in my sins", I could not be a believer unless this happened, read Romans 8.7 KJV ? It is ONLY through faith and repentance in the Saviour's atoning blood that we can be saved. Mark 1.15 KJV, Hebrews 8.22 KJV, Acts 4.12 KJV.
I have heard of these "scores of good reasons for doubting Christianity" before, I used to blaspheme, and mock believers myself! I was among those listed here in 1 Corinthians 6.9-11 KJV.
Apart from all this there were approximately 3,000,000 men,women and children who actually HEARD God's voice! Exodus 20.18-19 KJV. This is why THE Faith is "valid"; unlike many false religions, cults, who have a single 'prophet' who received a 'revelation'!
The Lord warned that many false prophets would come, most notably Mohammed? Matthew 24.11 KJV.
But,it is YOUR choice, you either believe or don't believe? There will be a time coming when it is too late; eternity is a LONG time to spend in hell.
And as regards "higher education", if it is based on a false premise, well what would you expect?
Christianity is THE Faith, not a faith, as the wicked ecumenical movement headed by Rome would have us believe!
I love the Lord Jesus Christ, because nothing or no one else offers me what He does!
Charles W (Guest) (21/09/2013 15:15) Colin - so in essence it's because the bible says it's so. And you believe it.Thank you.
Charles M (Guest) (21/09/2013 15:18)
Charles W get off the computer and leave Charles M to it, unless you have something better to say.
Colin Ford (Guest) (21/09/2013 15:49)
Charles M & W.
Please read 1 Peter 3.15 KJV.
Antibody (Guest) (21/09/2013 17:15) No man can be reconciled to God except through Christ - in other words, contrary to the futile efforts of 'christian' apologists, no man (or woman) can be (intellectually) persuaded to adopt a 'life changing' faith in Christ.
The ordinary person is blinded to the reality of Christ - if it were not so, scientists would have discovered His reality centuries ago.
Everything which has been created shouts God's power and nature - scientists deal in Christ's reality 24/7 - yet cannot see Him - they are spiritually blind to His presence
Everything which has been created - everything - naturally occuring or manufactued - everything which exists in this world owes it presence to the outworking of God's triune nature. Truly for every product - there is a process - and for every process there is a legal and authoritive prescription.
Everything arrives in this world as the child of a union between a legal prescription and an obedient process - in other words, no matter how your read Genesis 1 - eveything which has been created in this world is the child of a viable seed - a confirmed conception - a LET THERE BE.
In essence God created the universe - through His life and power working through an ordered and intelligent series of creative LET THERE BEs
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