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Kirk minister takes issue with Prime Minister

Rev. Louis Kinsey, a Church of Scotland minister in Aberdeen, has put down a challenge to David Cameron over the Prime Minister's public comments relating to Christians fostering children.

Eunice and Owen Johns
Eunice and Owen JohnsEd preface: According to a report by the Christian Institute, the Prime Minister has "waded into the row" over Christian foster parents’ views on homosexuality by stating Christians should be “tolerant, welcoming and broadminded”.

David Cameron made the loaded remark in response to a question from the Derby Telegraph about a court case involving Eunice and Owen Johns from Derby — a Christian couple who were in line to be respite foster carers for children aged between five and eight.

Rev. Louis Kinsey has responded to David Cameron's remarks by writing:

I haven’t seen the full text of all that the Prime Minister had to say about the Jones’ case. I do find it interesting that on this specific occasion he identified himself as a churchgoer, though he could have declared himself to be a Christian. That option was open to him. He then seems to speak about Christians as though he is speaking about someone else, and not a group to whom he belonged.

Perhaps I am being picky. I always felt a similar thing about Gordon Brown when he was the Prime Minister. Mr Brown was often ready to describe himself as a ‘son of the manse’ and would speak of Christian values, when he felt the need to, but I cannot recall an occasion when he spoke the name of Jesus publicly or described himself as a Christian believer. I hope that I am not traducing him.

The problem for Christians about Mr Cameron’s remarks in Derby is that they seem to place him in the opposite corner of the ring from the Jones’. They have clearly stood firm in their Christian convictions. Mr Cameron, however, in urging Christians to be ‘tolerant, welcoming and broad minded,’ infers that the Jones’ were not ‘tolerant, welcoming and broad minded.’

And the inference is that neither are all who share their point of view. There is a growing view amongst Christians in the UK that their contribution to national life is not valued or wanted and that their beliefs and morals are ridiculed and rubbished. It would be a terribly sad thing to have to believe that the Prime Minister sided with those who scoff at traditionally minded Christians believers.

The point is that Christians increasingly find that our rapidly changing culture is anything but ‘tolerant, welcoming and broad minded.’ It is prepared to be tolerant of Christian faith as long as it is kept in the head or the heart. It is intolerant of Christian faith when that faith starts to affect moral behaviour, especially in the taboo area of sexual propriety.

It is not welcoming to Christians who bring their orthodox Christian views to adoption panels, or drug strategy forums, or registrars’ offices, or fostering agencies. It is not broad-minded to Christians who preach in the streets, wear religious jewellery, or run bed and breakfast establishments in ways that try to uphold Christian views about marriage and sexual relationships.

What Christians increasingly believe is that the United Kingdom is not ‘tolerant, welcoming and broad minded’ to them and to their views. But what the good people of the UK have not yet cottoned on to is that today it is the Christians who are in the firing line, tomorrow it will be very other person or group with conservative values and morals, whether they are religious or not.

A fundamentalist liberalism has taken root in British life and it will not cease to be vicious and vindictive unless and until all people of sense and perspective, both the religious and the irreligious, decide that enough is enough.

Ed footnote:
David Starkey, a self-professed gay atheist has expressed his concern about a growing intolerance in our society.

 David Starkey on the BBC's Question Time 

Further reporting on the Johns' case can be found at the Christian Legal Centre.
Also at the Daily Mail.

Louis KinseyRev. Louis Kinsey is the Church of Scotland minister at St Columba's Church in Aberdeen, on the North East coast of Scotland. He has ministered there since early 1991 and writes: "My ministry focus has been on preaching and prayer. Few things thrill me more than preaching".
His blog can be found at: Coffee with Louis

Louis Kinsey / Christians Together, 09/03/2011

Martin Lisemore 09/03/2011 23:21
OK, time to wade in here! For better or worse, this is where I stand.

I for one am not tolerant, welcoming (of all and sundry) or broad minded. I see nothing in the Jesus of the Bible which says He is of the 'ah! Bless,' brigade. I see nothing which says He excused or tolerated sinful behaviour before a Holy God, His Father. Far from it, He condemned sin wherever He found it; the woman taken in adultery was told, go away and sin no more. He suffered and died on the cross for sinful man, that all might be redeemed.

Ah! Bless? Yes, that's what so many people, including church goers, come out with when speaking of others sin. They just can't be bothered to stand on a Biblical principle which we all know well.

Tolerance is a word used in the Queen's Christmas speech around the early nineteen seventies. She pleaded for tolerance in all matters, and now we have it. Everything, just everything, is tolerated in this nation, bar true Christians. Oh what a spineless people we have become.

Enough! Where are all the Christians who've signed up to CT in the past? I don't hear their voices on here! Who has written to the Queen, the Prime Minister, the newspapers? I have, and just since this article was posted on CT. Why? Because my firm belief is in the Jesus of the Bible.

I truly admire people like the minister above, they go public with a Biblical principle and bring it before a newspaper-reading public. They take risks, endanger their personal freedoms. Praise God for men and women like this. It's not enough to recline and say this is the end times, it will happen just as Jesus predicted.

Where in the Bible did Jesus ever give us leave to back off and let it all happen?

No where!

We Christians now have the country we've allowed grow around us, and we will answer for it. We also have a new breed of church people, the ' ah bless,' brigade. They're not Christians, not saved - I truly fear Jesus will say to them, depart from me, I never knew you.

Yes, I'm angry, again. A righteous anger I believe, because Jesus is being made of no account, yet again. And that by seemingly wholesome church people like Cameron. In the clip above, even gay atheist David Starkey, points out, in other words, a contrived, man made morality, is of no use, and leads to tyranny. We now have that tyranny.

May Almighty God have mercy on this nation.

Brian Ross 11/03/2011 12:25
Well done, brother Louis! As Martin has stated, we need more men and women of God to stand up for, and upon, the written Word of God. Sadly, as Edmund Burke famously said: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men [and women] do nothing."

Of course, our current PM is a "Christian" - as were his two immediate predecessors. Unfortunately, that term has become so devalued in our contemporary culture, as to be virtually meaningless! I find myself using it less and less, preferring to speak of "disciples of Jesus".

But why are we surprised at the (low) level of persecution that the believing community in the UK is beginning to experience? Indeed, does not the N.T. make clear that we should "Count it all joy , my brethren, when you meet various trials, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing." (James 1:2-4; RSV)? The whole tenor, I would contend, is not "if", but "when"! And, of course, unlike our brothers and sisters in so many other countries, we "... have not yet resisted to the point of shedding (our) blood" (Heb 12:4; RSV).

So, let us be prepared to act; but let us also be prepared to suffer. The devil knows that his time is increasingl short and, like a cornered rat, he is becoming increasingly hostile. But I don't worry - I've read the last page of the Book, and I know Who wins!!! Hallelujah!

Rosemary Cameron 11/03/2011 18:34
There is a petition relating to this case at It's at the top of their home page. If you are concerned, please sign it. It's one way to act.
Brian Ross 11/03/2011 22:15
Good point, Rosemary. I have also added a link on my Facebook page, and would encourage others to do the same.
Peter. (Guest) 01/06/2013 23:22
A poster includes in his comments:-

" Edmund Burke famously said: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men [and women] do nothing."

Alas, so many of you who, like myself, recognise the poison of political liberalism and the damage caused by the paranoia of modern egalitarianism, fail to recognise the elephant in the room from which so much else is distorted and is presently weakened. Edmund Burke did not include women in that prophetic statement. And as Isaiah chapter 3 warns us, summarised by the old saying - 'when the power of Satan is at its height, your leaders will have the minds of children and women shall control them'.

That is not a statement of misogyny. It is a statement warning humanity about women seeking political power and influence in the world alongside and above men. That includes your pulpits. That also, like the issue of homosexuality, is the word of God, and which also, even more importantly, is being ignored. Recognise that and you will survive, and will eventually move on.
John Miller 02/06/2013 05:56
Peter I agree with you completely on the issue of women in the pulpits. The allowance of this is serious error.
Peter. (Guest) 06/06/2013 20:40
Thankyou John, it is gratifying to receive feedback from others who are not swayed by transitory ideological trends and who still acknowledge the truth as revealed to us by the gospels. Grace and faith are becoming increasingly important weapons to such Christians as yourself in the 21st century. However much of what dismays us will eventually come and go in good time. Comforting perspective is provided by the words of C.S.Lewis - 'All that is not eternal is eternally out of date'.

Editor 07/06/2013 11:14
The problem of women in headship roles is indeed a serious one; as is the problem of unregenerate males (and women) in headship roles.
The basic problem however is not 'gender' nor unregenerated males; the problem is the whole edifice career clericalism and professional pulpiteering that has been built up; and rigorously maintained and defended.

For article on Women in Ministry (service)see -

and Women in leadership roles -

John Miller 07/06/2013 20:58
Sadly, Ed I have to agree also with you.
Ewan Wilson (Guest) 17/06/2013 22:29
Cameron has more or less consistently demonstrated on a number of issues and in a number of cases that he is one who by their lips serve God but their hearts are far from Him. His cynical brandishing of his 'Christian' credentials amounts to a breach of the third Commandment.
He has also been a major promoter of chaotic sexual practices and sided with such time and again against those opposing it. Does he, do we, imagine that God will be routinely mocked in such a fashion?
I shall not be voting Conservative ever again. Clearly that party is run by our arch enemies as much as anything the messianic socialists have served up. As for Gordon Brown, it's obvious the religion he was served up in his father's manse was baptised humanism and certainly not a Christ and Word centred Faith.
I'm off to sign the petition Rosemary has mentioned.

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